Demonised: We lock them up. We give them Asbos. But is our fear of kids making them worse?

like football riots, the actions of the minority get the headlines, while the majority who dont do wrong (and as such dont sell papers) see little or no recognition.

These reports make it sound like the press started to demonise children and then the bad behaviour started.

Tell that to the old people too frightened to go out at night, or who have to tollerate abuse and aggresion everytime they go to the shops.

I'm not suggesting for a second that this is the case for most kids these days, not even for any sizeable percentage. But, if you are on the receiving end, it doesn't matter how many there are or what the national figures say.

One of the problems is peception. If you are told enough times that a group of kids are threatening, you will begin to see them that way. The crime surveys all show that individual impacts of crime are going down, but that the perception of crime is going up.

As for the mosquito, I'm really in two minds about this as well. I can think of places where you cannot get anywhere near the local shop for a bunch of kids, scooters and empty beer cans. Very often, these kids have nowhere, such as youth clubs, to go, so I do realise that they have to go somewhere. But, at the same time, they should be discouraged from blocking the paths and car parks where they hang out.

The mosquito does impact on innocent kids and that is unfair. It is also being used as a ringtone as phones can go off in classes without the teachers hearing.

We should only lock people up if :-
a) They are a danger to the public.
b) this danger cannot be mitigated in any other way

As this goes for children, as well as adults, I would say, Yes, we are locking too many up.

As for the underlying issue of the behaviour of children - my view is that there are a number of reasons for this :-
1. Life has changed so rapidly that youth culture is so different that it can appear threatening - even when it isn't.
2. Due to a more liberal and less constrained society, which I view mostly as a good thing, we have to also live with the downside consequence of less discipline and less pressure to behave well.
3. Due to social & family breakdown, many children have less example in how to relate to others.
4. We live in an increasingly materialistic society where the attitude is 'I want it & I want it now'. For some, if they don't get what they want, they just take it.
5. We live in a time of decreasing employment opportunity and reduced hope for the future. In this environment it is little wonder that some are turning to drugs and alcohol to relieve the boredom.
6. With the increase in social mobility, the days of families knowing each other is largely a thing of the past. Children are largely anonymous.

Now, how do you deal with all that? Many of the problems occur as side effects of something that also has a good side.

I think locking people up is a sign of defeat and stores up greater problems in the long term but avoiding that takes a lot of commitment and resources.

I feel that bare statistics like:

"The experts said crime committed by children had fallen between 2002 and 2006, but the numbers criminalised had gone up by just over a quarter."

can be most misleading. Maybe the crimes committed by children are down BECAUSE the number criminalised had gone up by 25%.

There's no real information there, or background which would make the figures meaningful.


Many people would interpret the reduction in child crime as indicating the current system is working just fine.

id just like to say that here in my home town there is a growing problem of drunk children causing havock to every nieghbourhood.
i dont agree that they have nothing to do ,to pull out an old addage when i was young i had less to do but i never ended up terrorising people in there homes or getting so drunk i couldnt stand up.
there are too many excuses put out as to why there all naughty poor things
i came from a broken home too you know
they knowthey can get away with just about anything these days there is no deterent the law is a mokery when you call for the police they never turn up
if you confront the little darlings you get your car and house windows put in verbal abuse and threats
true not all kids are the same but too many of them unfortunately are bad
they have too many rights nowadays and they use every one of them to make sure they can carry on doing what there doing.

this country needs to sit down and really look at the direction its goin in because too many good people are suffering by the hands of the do gooders

The 'perception of crime' was a phrase dreampt up by the government to tell us that everything was really fine and that we are overreacting. Ministers in leafy suburbia are insulated and do not have to inhabit the inner city areas and some suburban areas which have practically become no go areas for police. its a minority and they are getting away with it hands down, in schools, shopping precincts and society in general! I'm sick of hearing about 'rights' and want action to effectively remove the minority who do not carry out their civic duty making it intolerable for others. These little monsters know they are untouchable and act accordingly. If anyone has failed them its the cloth eared liberals and 'human rights' brigade who have made it impossible to discipline children effectively. Its a minority but feels much larger. When they start stabbing ministers children or vandalising ministers property,;watch how fast things change!

The main point about the reduction of child crime is that it is largely demographic as the number of adolescent children has dropped in the same period.

I think that the problem is rooted in a lack of mutual respect, a feeling of social exclusion and the lack of alternatives to hanging around a bus stop or late shop. This creates a, "Us and them" feeling for everyone.

I've seen building sites with "Beware of children" signs all over the fences. Something is definitely very wrong because when I tell this to a Dutch person living in Holland it is so incredulous to them that they don't believe it!

This behaviour in Dutch society is noticeable by it's absence. here are some problems in the largest cities like Rotterdam but nothing like that in the UK.

Here are some differences between the Dutch and UK systems.
Parents are financially liable for their children up to the age of 18. If their child for instance stole a car and crashed it then the parents are liable for all costs including any medical bills. This means that an action like this by a minor could easily lead to bankruptcy and a repossessed house, car, Etc. This forces parents to make sure that nothing like this happens which would jeopardise the entire family. By the time they are 18 they can take the test and get a legal car anyway.

There seems to be more hobbies and interests here. Most kids have an out of school activity. I never seen or heard a domestic row here in over 6 years but I used to hear or see them 2-3 times a week when I lived in Manchester

Working week is averaged at less than 40 hours a week and there is much less shift work.

Although there is no law regarding it, drinking tins of beer on the street is socially unacceptable and only done by alcoholics.

Drinking laws are different a 16 year old can drink beer and wines at 16 but strictly forbidden strong drinks like vodka and fortified wines until 18 and supermarkets don't sell strong drinks. You have to go to an alcohol shop to buy this with a strict ID card system. Also, under 18s are not allowed in coffee shops that sell hash and weed.

There is 11 times less single teenage mums in Holland

There is a much greater use of Cat A drugs in the UK.

Unemployment is at about the same rate.

Take away alcohol is less than half the price here which you would think would add to the problem but it doesn't seem to.

Something is definitely wrong the real challenge is to solve it as a demonised youth will turn into demonised adults with a great big chip on their shoulders. I'm not doing a David Cameron and saying "Hug a hoodie". I think the problem is a combination of factors that all need to be addressed.

Bring back National Service. Thats what i say.

I think it does make things worse. Young people are viewed with deep suspision on the basis of their youth or the manner in which they dress, they are stopped and searched in an arbitary fashion and expected to be vile.
They are constantly told they are undersiable within society so how canwe possibly expect to bombard such vunerable minds with such negative self images and expect to produce well adjusted people.
We are becoming a society which ostrasises the young.

as a mother of four i am petrified of what will become of my kids.i live in a little village near aberfan south wales. there are no youth clubs where i would feel comfortable leaving my kids and the nearest shop is a mile away,every weekend i see the same faces sat on the railing opposite my house.they are a bit loud and on occasions can get quite rowdy but never have i been verbally abused. i think the problem is that kids these days dont know the meaning of the word no. some adults are the same, ive had funny looks from other mothers when out shoppong because ive refused to buy something that my children have asked for,i find this rediculous. i think that teachers are too frightened to so much as look at a child in the wrong way due to fear of the parents going ballistic. my son is going through an "i know better than anyone" phase at the moment and if i raise my voice at him he threatens me with childline! i would never have dreamt of shouting at my mother the way my son does with me. i enjoyed the programme bad lads army where potential no hopers were sent to 50s style boot camp.what a difference that made.perhaps there should be places like that offering parents the chance to send their "little angels". where do i sign up lol

To a extent I see what is being said, but on the other side of the coin - these day's i'm fed up of reading "Chavs and Hoody's are at fault for this b;ar blar", so i'm in too minds too be honest. So say 40/60 I disagree.